Card Reviews · ArkhamDB

Physical Training

This is still seen a lot in beginner decks, so I thought I'll write an updated review (and because the existing pros and cons review is kind of misleading).

You should almost never take Physical Training (0). Not even as deck slot filler, unless you have nothing but the core set (in which case you might not have any other deck slot fillers).

This card (and this class of cards in general) is among the most inefficient cards in the game. By standard action-economy analysis, this costs 4 "actions" to play: 2 resource, a card, and a play action. That's a large investment for a card that you need to burn even more resources on to get any benefit out of. If you don't use it a lot, you just spent 4 "actions" for very little benefit. If you use it a lot, you'll find yourself short of resources to play actually useful allies weapons and events.

By the time you gained a +3 boost from Physical Training, you have just paid for a Leo De Luca in a class that isn't especially known for being flush for resources, and have gotten far less benefit.

The + could have come from an ally or weapon you could have played if you hadn't spent resources playing and boosting with Physical Training. The horror damage you reduced by boosting could have been soaked by the same ally. Or the same boosts could have been gotten by committing cards that you drew using the tempo you gained by not playing Physical Training (+1 skill boost ~= 1 card committed ~= 1 resource anyway!).

If your 0xp deck is flush enough in resources to take Physical Training, it is a sign that you've over-invested in resources for your deck, or should take the chance to throw some Dynamites.

The upgrades don't have this problem because they have a much lower upfront cost (and synergy with Well Prepared).

2/26/21

suika · 9497

A one of card that can spend resources is more useful than it sounds, it is very easy to have one or two games with a deck where you simply can't turn your resources into progress, no matter what the situation is physical training will give you that progress, sometimes dynamite is in hand when you need soak, or an ally is in hand when you need to avoid AoO. and almost all assets have a cost of 3+ "actions" and there is certainly worse than a slotless comitable card. — Zerogrim · 295 2/26/21

This is great for P skids with O Back. He has too many resources. This pushes his fight and saves him from treacheries like rotting remains or frozen in fear. — Django · 5148 2/26/21

@Zerogrim difference being that nearly all other assets provide some form of benefit without needing you to spend even more resources — or if they do need you to spend resources/cards, they have much higher rates of return on those resources. And physical training won't help you if you need soak or need to avoid an AoO either, so I don't quite get your point (also nearly every card is committable so). Physical Training also practically never translates into progress by itself unless there's a Will parley somewhere, in which case you should have bought Fine Clothes instead. — suika · 9497 2/26/21

@Django 1) skids fighting with Fist isn't very effective in the first place 2) skids has much better resource sinks and/or well-connected 3) skids can soak the horror from rotting remains, and after a bit of XP he has much better options against Frozen in Fear and will treacheries — suika · 9497 2/26/21

suika I definitely agree that this suite of level 0 cards are simply not worth taking, except for one exception: a beginner Preston deck. He's simply got the cash to make those costs irrelevant but may need help with a head test every once in a while. That being said, even this advantage I've found to be niche as I usually am spending my 5 resources a turn on something else, and thus willing to take whatever the encounter deck wants to give me. But there are a few of those truly nasty cards (frozen in fear) that you just have to pass, and Preston doesnt have a plethora of cards with head icons to rely on. I haven't played with the super upgraded version yet, but I imagine it's simply cream these situations. — jdk5143 · 98 2/26/21

@jdk5143 Dig Deep is a great Preston card yeah. The analysis is different for Dig Deep and Scrapper as well since those are in the class with Dark Horse access. — suika · 9497 2/26/21

The problem with the "there are other cards that offer boosts" is that those cards often compete for slots. So a "slotless boost card" can provide more flexibility. — LivefromBenefitSt · 1076 2/26/21

@Live the more relevant comparison would be using skill cards for boosting, since PT boosts are per test only. Skill cards are pretty much better every time than playing and boosting via Physical Training — or even random cards with Will and Combat icons. — suika · 9497 2/26/21

Well, except PT can be used repeatedly (depending on resources) which is like other assets but not like (most) skills. I think PT is particularly weak because of traditional Guardian resource economy problems. — LivefromBenefitSt · 1076 2/26/21

Resource boosters are fine in decks that generate plenty of resources. Something like Dig Deep in Preston or PT in Jenny can do a lot of work. I think saying PT costs you 4 actions ignores that 1. You start the game with 5 resources and cards, and 2. That many classes have more efficient ways of gaining those things. A resource isn’t really worth one action unless you’re taking the resource action, which most people tend to avoid. — StyxTBeuford · 13043 3/17/21

@Styx: it's an analysis of opportunity cost, resources you're spending on PT could have been spent on other assets, instead of PT you could have drawn another asset. — suika · 9497 4/9/21

And this specifically applies to PT, not other boosters like the composures, or even Scrapper/Keen eye. PT is subpar even on Jenny. — suika · 9497 4/9/21

Eye of the Djinn

I think this card is great. Even without a blessed or cursed package, it acts as a plus 2 or 3 every single turn. That alone is worth a handslot at cost 2, and it synergies with other increases given this affects base stat. Works great for over suceed rogue. I've used in Wendy Adams and it allows her to punch cultists - a huge resource save and allows her to do things that she normally can't. That situation is probably the biggest benefit - allowing investigators to do things they can't normally so each turn - pass head tests, attack, investigate. Amazing versitility!

2/25/21

Adamgoff159 · 18

Without a blurse package, this would be quite expensive as a +2/+3 once per round; compare the slotless 1/round stat boosters aka High Roller/Well Connected and the like. It also works poorly for stats that you're already good at. In true solo, the versatility will be still worth the price even without blurses, but in multiplayer specialization generally is more useful. — suika · 9497 2/26/21

I also think this is great, especially to boost will. Many rogues have low will and fear rotting remains and such. The eye is a great solution to that. You can only have 1 in your deck but backpack (2) will help you find it. — Django · 5148 2/26/21

@Django Eye of Djinn doens't work work in the mythos phase, so it won't help against Rotting Remains and the like. It will work for Will treacheries that require tests during your turn though. — suika · 9497 2/26/21

Seal of the Elder Sign

The most broken elder sign effect with this is probably Winifred Habbamock. Play your entire „overachieve“ combo, have your mystic friend commit this, profit, take it all back. Really can win a scenario for you.

You can really force it, too by putting Word of Command in your deck. If you haven’t already Wini & Jaqueline Fine is a combo you should try! ;)

2/25/21

Scarx · 53

Wini's Elder Sign is definitely one of the best! Now Guardians can also trigger it for her with Blessings of Isis. — Zinjanthropus · 229 3/6/21

Isn't Seal of the Elder Sign still removed though? Wini's Elder Sign says to put it back in your hand, but Seal of the Elder Signs says that after the test ends it is removed. I'm guessing regardless of it's current position. — Pixelated · 1 7/5/22

This is an excellent card in the right team and scenario. I have used it as a finisher move with Father Mateo more than once, helping myself or my teammates take out large enemies or pass a crucial test that would be devastating to have failed. It is expensive; I'd recommend it for team play usually so you can have the option of supporting the other investigators to do some crazy things and make it easy to get through those key moments that would leave you dead and burning otherwise. — Louis Dooner · 70 12/22/22

Serpent's Haven

So this card lets me wonder, regarding Read the Signs: up until recently, I firmly believed, you can not ignore the trigger of the damage, because it happens after investigating. Neither could you move from Père Lachaise Cemetery after successfully "reading the signs". But I'm browsing now all the locations for a RtS review, I'm preparing, and I stumbled over the definition for Investigate Action:

If the test is successful, the investigator has succeeded in investigating the location, he or she discovers one clue at the location. (This occurs during step 7 of the skill test, per "ST.7 Apply skill test results" on page 26.)

So apparently cards, like Père Lachaise Cemetery seem to trigger, because there is a timing after succeeding in investigating within the test (which lasts until ST.8). But if "after successfully investigating" is within reach of RtS's ignore ability, this should also apply to "after investigating" in general? Weird! How are the opinions on that one? Or have there been any official ruling? (Probably not, otherwise it would be mentioned in the FAQ paragraph of RtS.)

2/25/21

Susumu · 381

I don't recall an official ruling, but I'd be of the opinion that any forced abilities using the investigation (or any part thereof) to define their timing point are considered to "trigger during" that investigation, regardless of whether they're "when", "if", or "after". — Thatwasademo · 58 2/25/21

(after all, Haunted, the keyword that Read the Signs was primarily printed to interact with, resolves "after applying all results for that skill test" — Thatwasademo · 58 2/25/21

Haunted works after ST.7 and before ST.8 so it's unambiguously still "during" the investigation. — suika · 9497 2/26/21

Agree with suika here. I also posted the question on BGG, and there KillBray reasoned that "after successfully investigating" triggers on the success, not the end of investigating. Seems, this was also somewhere officially confirmed. He agrees with me, that "after investigating" should NOT trigger. I wish, they had found a clearer wording, but that's what I will go now with. — Susumu · 381 2/26/21

Mano a Mano

You might not guess it, but the card with the people bareknuckle boxing is super good with the boxer. The joy of this card is that it’s a natural upgrade from Mano(1), and you can earn it by killing victory point monsters that other classes simply can’t do enough damage to.

Three damage guaranteed is enough to build a deck around. Have your allies take Stargazing, take First Watch or On the Hunt...Use "Get over here!" during enemy, upkeep, or mythos. You’re already playing Nathan to punch the crap out of horrid monsters. Make it easier, and recur it with your elder sign. You’ll appreciate cheap damage in guardian.

2/25/21

MrGoldbee · 1484